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Infant Baptism or Believers Baptism
At what time does scripture indicate that one should be baptized?
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alr256
06-03-13 09:44 PM
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06-20-13 06:27 PM
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Infant Baptism or Believers Baptism

 

06-03-13 09:44 PM
alr256 is Offline
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alr256
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My roommate and his girlfriend discovered while talking one day
that they disagreed on when a person should be baptized -- whether
it should occur while the person is an infant or if it should occur when
it is expressed by the individual that he or she wishes to be baptized
(after first accepting Jesus as his or her Savior).  My roommate has
done a lot of research on the issue and so far has only determined
that nether side can be proven nor disputed.

Does anyone have any opinions on the matter that can be
supported by scripture?  Please respond with your thoughts
and please support ALL arguments with scripture (leave a
reference).  Please do not simply bash one side or the other
with unsupported opinions.  I am interested in how different
people with different backgrounds interpret scripture.
My roommate and his girlfriend discovered while talking one day
that they disagreed on when a person should be baptized -- whether
it should occur while the person is an infant or if it should occur when
it is expressed by the individual that he or she wishes to be baptized
(after first accepting Jesus as his or her Savior).  My roommate has
done a lot of research on the issue and so far has only determined
that nether side can be proven nor disputed.

Does anyone have any opinions on the matter that can be
supported by scripture?  Please respond with your thoughts
and please support ALL arguments with scripture (leave a
reference).  Please do not simply bash one side or the other
with unsupported opinions.  I am interested in how different
people with different backgrounds interpret scripture.
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06-03-13 10:48 PM
patar4097 is Offline
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   "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)



   "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." (Acts 2:39)



   And notice that here, St. Peter is saying this not only to the adults of the crowd, but also the young children.



   Now, I know as a Catholic, others might take a different view from this, but when we are born, we are born with Original Sin, the sin of Adam and Eve passed down. Baptism removes this sin, along with all actual sin, the sins we commit (not to mention, gives Sanctifying grace and other graces to the soul). And like this next verse says, Baptism is necessary for Eternal Salvation.



   "Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)



   But please don't think I'm saying that babies that aren't Baptized go to hell. They can, but really, I can't really answer what happens, because I don't know the answer. But I know that if the child receive Baptism and then dies minutes later, they will go to Heaven.
   "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)



   "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." (Acts 2:39)



   And notice that here, St. Peter is saying this not only to the adults of the crowd, but also the young children.



   Now, I know as a Catholic, others might take a different view from this, but when we are born, we are born with Original Sin, the sin of Adam and Eve passed down. Baptism removes this sin, along with all actual sin, the sins we commit (not to mention, gives Sanctifying grace and other graces to the soul). And like this next verse says, Baptism is necessary for Eternal Salvation.



   "Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)



   But please don't think I'm saying that babies that aren't Baptized go to hell. They can, but really, I can't really answer what happens, because I don't know the answer. But I know that if the child receive Baptism and then dies minutes later, they will go to Heaven.
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(edited by patar4097 on 06-03-13 10:48 PM)    

06-07-13 04:10 AM
SoL@R is Offline
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alr256 :  There always seems to be confusion about baptism among the various Christian denominations.  This is not to say that it's a result of the Bible teaching confusing messages on the subject, let's just be clear about that.  The Bible is very clear of what it is, who it is for and what it accomplishes.  Only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptised.  Water baptism by immersion is a public testimony of ones faith and a step of obedience after you have come to faith in Christ.  It is a statement of submission to Him, identification with His death, burial and resurrection.
Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Romans 6:3-4 - Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

With this view, infant baptism is not Biblical practice.  A baby cannot place his / her faith in Christ.  A baby cannot make a conscious decision to obey Christ.  A baby cannot understand what water baptism symbolises.  The Bible also does not have any record of babies being baptised.  Infant baptism originates from the sprinkling and pouring methods of baptism.  Even this method fails to agree with the Bible.  Pouring or sprinkling does not illustrate the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  
Many Christians who practice infant baptism understand infant baptism as the new covenant equivalent of circumcision.  Looking at it this way, just as circumcision joined a Hebrew to the covenants of Abraham and Moses, so baptism joins a person to the New Covenant of salvation through Jesus Christ, is unbiblical.  Nowhere in the New Testament is baptism described as the New Covenant that replaced the Old Covenant circumcision.  It does not describe baptism as a sign of the New Covenant anywhere in the New Testament.  It is only faith in Jesus Christ that enables a person to enjoy the blessings of the New Covenant (Hebrews 9:15; 1 Corinthians 11:25)

Baptism does not save a person.  It does not matter in what manner you were baptised.  If you have not first trusted in Christ for salvation, baptism is meaningless and useless.  As already mentioned, water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience to be done after you have given your life to Christ - it's a public profession of faith in Jesus.  Infant baptism, unfortunately, does not fit the Biblical definition of baptism or the Biblical method of baptism.  Christian parents can by all means dedicate their baby to Christ.  That's entirely appropriate, but if they grow up, they still have to make a personal decision to believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
alr256 :  There always seems to be confusion about baptism among the various Christian denominations.  This is not to say that it's a result of the Bible teaching confusing messages on the subject, let's just be clear about that.  The Bible is very clear of what it is, who it is for and what it accomplishes.  Only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptised.  Water baptism by immersion is a public testimony of ones faith and a step of obedience after you have come to faith in Christ.  It is a statement of submission to Him, identification with His death, burial and resurrection.
Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Romans 6:3-4 - Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

With this view, infant baptism is not Biblical practice.  A baby cannot place his / her faith in Christ.  A baby cannot make a conscious decision to obey Christ.  A baby cannot understand what water baptism symbolises.  The Bible also does not have any record of babies being baptised.  Infant baptism originates from the sprinkling and pouring methods of baptism.  Even this method fails to agree with the Bible.  Pouring or sprinkling does not illustrate the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.  
Many Christians who practice infant baptism understand infant baptism as the new covenant equivalent of circumcision.  Looking at it this way, just as circumcision joined a Hebrew to the covenants of Abraham and Moses, so baptism joins a person to the New Covenant of salvation through Jesus Christ, is unbiblical.  Nowhere in the New Testament is baptism described as the New Covenant that replaced the Old Covenant circumcision.  It does not describe baptism as a sign of the New Covenant anywhere in the New Testament.  It is only faith in Jesus Christ that enables a person to enjoy the blessings of the New Covenant (Hebrews 9:15; 1 Corinthians 11:25)

Baptism does not save a person.  It does not matter in what manner you were baptised.  If you have not first trusted in Christ for salvation, baptism is meaningless and useless.  As already mentioned, water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience to be done after you have given your life to Christ - it's a public profession of faith in Jesus.  Infant baptism, unfortunately, does not fit the Biblical definition of baptism or the Biblical method of baptism.  Christian parents can by all means dedicate their baby to Christ.  That's entirely appropriate, but if they grow up, they still have to make a personal decision to believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
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06-15-13 10:12 AM
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I can't really cover the subject more sufficiently that SoL@R covered it, but baptizing babies simply is not biblical.  Nor is baptism by sprinling water. Baptism is something done in obedience to God's Word, and a baby has no ability to accept Christ, repent of their sins, or even come to a decision that they wish to obey God.  Baptism is symbolic of the death and burial of our old selves... and the birth of our new selves, in Christ.  Since it DOES represent a death and burial, complete submersion is definitely a part of the action.

However, as I said, one must come to realize they need Christ, they're a sinner, and that Christ has washed their sins away (after they accept Him, that is).  Baptism is an act of faith and full reliance on God.  It doesn't save us, but should be one of our desires when we start a personal relationship with God, because we desire to obey Him.
I can't really cover the subject more sufficiently that SoL@R covered it, but baptizing babies simply is not biblical.  Nor is baptism by sprinling water. Baptism is something done in obedience to God's Word, and a baby has no ability to accept Christ, repent of their sins, or even come to a decision that they wish to obey God.  Baptism is symbolic of the death and burial of our old selves... and the birth of our new selves, in Christ.  Since it DOES represent a death and burial, complete submersion is definitely a part of the action.

However, as I said, one must come to realize they need Christ, they're a sinner, and that Christ has washed their sins away (after they accept Him, that is).  Baptism is an act of faith and full reliance on God.  It doesn't save us, but should be one of our desires when we start a personal relationship with God, because we desire to obey Him.
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06-20-13 06:27 PM
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Which one did Jesus have?

Well "my" church baptises babies so what can I say.

But like Singelli says in the previous post, baptism is symbolic. And I doubt baptism saves anyone, a child or an adult.
Which one did Jesus have?

Well "my" church baptises babies so what can I say.

But like Singelli says in the previous post, baptism is symbolic. And I doubt baptism saves anyone, a child or an adult.
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